-This is going to be a rather technical post, and some people may not understand it, and that’s okay-
Definitions
Interdependent: Relating to two or more people or things dependent on each other
Proposition (or P): is a statement that is true or false
The Argument
P1 — Allah’s attributes are eternal and inseparable from His essence.
P2 — Allah attributes can’t change and are perfect; He cannot gain, lose, or change in any of His attributes. (i.e., Allah is perfect)
P3 — Therefore, Allah is eternally loving. because of his attribute al-Wadūd (most loving)
P4 — Love is an interdependent (relational) attribute: genuine love exists only in a relational structure between a lover and a beloved. If love ceases to be interdependent (i.e., if the relational structure is removed or absent), it ceases to be love altogether.
P5 — In the doctrine of Tawhid (strict oneness with no eternal internal distinctions or persons within Allah), there is no eternal actual “other” within Allah to serve as the beloved object of His love.
P6 — Therefore, Allah’s love cannot be eternally interdependent.
P7 — Therefore, Allah’s love cannot be eternally actual love (from P4 and P6).
P8 — Therefore, Allah is not eternally loving (contradicting P3).
P9 — The only way to avoid the contradiction in P8 (while preserving Tawhid) would be for Allah’s love to begin or become actual only after creation (i.e., when an “other” — creatures — exists to receive it).
P10 — But if love becomes actual only after creation, then Allah’s attribute of love changes (from non-actual/potential to actual), violating P2 (perfection requires no change in attributes).
P11 — Therefore, either Allah is not eternally loving (contradicting P3), or His attributes change (contradicting P2).
P12 — Both options lead to contradiction with the core claims about Allah’s eternal, immutable, perfect nature.
C — Therefore, Allah (as described with these attributes under strict Tawhid) cannot exist, because the conception is logically incoherent.
The Simple Argument
Some people won’t understand a thing I just said, so here is a simplified version of it.
P1: Allah is eternally loving (i.e., he can’t stop loving).
P2: Love requires multiple things to exist; if there are not multiple things, then it’s not love.
P3: If Allah stops loving, then he stops being Allah.
Q: What was Allah loving before he created something?
A: nothing
C: Therefore, Allah can’t exist.
This is the simple version of the argument, so it may not make sense fully or answer all the questions, but if you don’t understand something, just go to the main version.
Breaking down the Argument
The first four Propositions are going to be goofy to understand for some people, and some people will disagree with P4, so I’m going to be breaking down P1-4.
Proposition 1
Allah’s attributes are eternal and inseparable from His essence.
I came to this conclusion by logic and Quotes from Muslims. Here, let me show you
Quotes From Muslims
Basically, the actions (or Attributes describing the Actions) of Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) are Qadimah; He ever has always had His Attributes even before creating anything.
AbdurRahman.org – Actions and Attributes of Allah are Eternal (Qadimah)
“wrote in his explanation of Al-‘Aqeedah At-Tahaawiyyah: “This means that Allaah The Exalted is eternally qualified with attributes of perfection, the Essential Attributes and the Active Attributes. It is impermissible to believe that Allaah acquired an attribute after He did not have it, because His attributes are attributes of perfection.”
islamweb.net – Difference between Allaah’s Essential Attributes and His Active Attributes
‘Since eternity is confirmed to the Self “Dhat” of Allah, then His attributes are necessarily eternal, because a created attribute requires that the attributed self be created. Imam Abu Hanifah said in ‘al-Fiqh al-’Absat’: “Allah’s Attributes are not created and were not preceded by non-existence. Changes in states happen to creations. Whoever claims that the attributes of Allah are created, or doubts it, or hesitates about whether or not they are created, is a blasphemer”.’
Ahmad Ahmad – What does the eternity of the Attributes of Allah mean?
Logic
Let’s add some logic to why this makes sense-
If an eternal, perfect Being says he has an attribute, then he must always have that attribute. Why?
If he is eternal, then he is beyond time (i.e., before and after time). And if this Being is perfect, then he can’t change his core attributes. And if he changes his core attributes, he would no longer be perfect. So knowing this, we can conclude that these eternal Being’s attributes are eternal with Him.
Conclusion And Thoughts
After looking at quotes from Mulims and using logic, we have concluded that Allah’s attributes are eternal with him, and if you say otherwise as a muslim, you are a “blasphemer,” not my words.
Proposition 2
Allah attributes can’t change and are perfect; He cannot gain, lose, or change in any of His attributes. (i.e., Allah is perfect)
I don’t think any muslim is going to disagree with me, but just in case, I’m going to quote someone.
“This means that Allaah The Exalted is eternally qualified with attributes of perfection, the Essential Attributes and the Active Attributes. It is impermissible to believe that Allaah acquired an attribute after He did not have it, because His attributes are attributes of perfection. Hence their absence is imperfection. It is inconceivable that He was first imperfect and then He became perfect.“
IslamWeb.net – Difference between Allaah’s Essential Attributes and His Active Attributes
Proposition 3
Therefore, Allah is eternally loving.
Again, I don’t think any muslims are going to disagree with me on this, but let me bring up some Quran verses, Tafsirs, and quotes from Muslims.
Quran Verses & Tafsir’s
-Quran Verse-
Ask pardon of your Lord and then turn unto Him (repentant). Lo! my Lord is Merciful, Loving.
-Tafsirs-
“(Verily, my Lord is Most Merciful, Most Loving.) to those who repent.”
And ask forgiveness of your Lord then repent to Him. Truly my Lord is Merciful to believers Affectionate’ loving towards them.
(Ask pardon of your Lord) declare your Lord’s divine Oneness (and then turn unto Him (repellent)) turn to Him repentant and with sincerity. (Lo! my Lord is, Merciful) towards His believing servants, (Loving) He forgives and rewards them; it is also said that this means: He loves them and makes His obedience beloved to them.
-Quotes-
“Love is part of the essence of Allah as expressed in the Beautiful Name al-Wadūd,”
Anonymous Guest Author – The Meaning of Allah’s Name Al-Wadūd: Seeking The Love of Allah
After looking at Quran verses, Tafsirs, quotes from Muslims, and while looking at P2, we can conclude that Allah is eternally loving.
Proposition 4
Love is an interdependent (relational) attribute: genuine love exists only in a relational structure between a lover and a beloved. If love ceases to be interdependent (i.e., if the relational structure is removed or absent), it ceases to be love altogether.
So this proposition is going to be a bit controversial. But I’m going to show you why I hold this proposition and why you guys should too. I’m going to be using philosophy, religious philosophy, logic, and I’m going to be quoting a lot of people.
Love
There are so MANY definitions for love, for example: Agape, eros, philia, storge, philautia, mania, pragma, hubb, hawa, alaqah, kalaf, ishq, shaghaf, sababah, taym, huyam, walah, jawa, ahavah, hesed, racham, and dod. That is every “love” in Greek, Hebrew, and Arabic. Love is a bit different in every culture, so to help set a definition for it, I’ll be using the Quran and the Bible.
Religious Philosophy
The idea of love is a very fascinating topic, with modern meta describing love as a great feeling you have for someone (or something), but in philosophy and in most religions, love is an action. Let’s use the Bible and the Quran, for example: The Bible makes many claims about love in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8, but everything that is “love” in these couple of verses is an action and not a feeling. Although the Quran does not have a direct love list like the Bible, it does set out things that would be considered loving, look at Surah 85:14 (Kindness)& Surah 7:156 (Mercy), both of which are actions and not feelings. Having love as an action its easier to understand the proposition, how? Like I said in the proposition, love is an interdependent attribute, so it needs multiple things to exist. How so? Let us put it this way:
– A loves B, A hugs B-, – A loves A. A hugs A, but A can’t hug itself (A is sad)- Do you guys understand now?
Philosophy & Quoting Philosophers
Now I’ll be quoting philosophers who also hold my point to show I’m not crazy.
“A friend is one soul abiding in two bodies.”
Aristotle – The Lives and Opinions of Eminent Philosophers p. 187
“Authentic love must be founded on reciprocal recognition of two freedoms; each lover would
then experience himself as himself and as the other”Simone de Beauvoir – Love: According to Simone de Beauvoir
(Not sure if the PDF will work, sorry :c)
“Love isn’t simply about two people meeting and their inward-looking relationship: it is a construction, a life that is being made, no longer from the perspective of One but from the perspective of Two.“
Alain Badiou – Philosopher Alain Badiou on Why We Fall and How We Stay in Love
“Mature love is union under the condition of preserving one’s integrity, one’s individuality. Love is an active power in man; a power which breaks through the walls which separate man from his fellow men, which unites him with others; love makes him overcome the sense of isolation and separateness, yet it permits him to be himself, to retain his integrity. In love the paradox occurs that two beings become one and yet remain two.”
“Love is not a state, a feeling, a disposition, but an exchange, uneven, fraught with history, with ghosts, with longings that are more or less legible to those who try to see one another with their own faulty vision.”
“Love is born into every human being; it calls back the halves of our original nature together; it tries to make one out of two and heal the wound of human nature.”
Philosophers agree with my claim that love is an interdependent attribute; even well-known philosophers like Plato and Aristotle agree with me.
Common rebuttals
Ive posted some test arguments on my TikTok (Click —> here to follow) and I’ve already had a lot of Muslims try to rebuke the claim and with fault rebuttals, and so I’m going to be showing you the bad arguments and why they don’t work, just in case one of you tries and makes the same argument.
“This Argument Should Also Apply To Jesus.”
Nope, it does not. Jesus has the Trinity in eternal love.
“Allah Can Stop Loving, Just Like How Yahweh Can Stop Being Angry.”
If a Muslim does make this claim, they are a blasphemer. Love is an essential attribute of Allah; it’s what makes Allah who he is. Yahweh is not eternally angry, nor is that one of his essential attributes. So for the people trying to learn, that’s what we call the false equivocation fallacy.
“Love doesn’t have to be eternally exercised to be real.”
I would agree and disagree. I would agree to this if love were a feeling, but as we discussed before, the Quran and the Bible set love as an action. So you need to be doing an act eternally to be eternally loving.
“That’s Not How Love Works.”
Some people disagree with my definition of love, and for those people im going to lay it out for them.
Heartbreak: Some people will say love is a feeling because you will feel sad after you break up with someone or if someone does not love you back.
1: Just because you’re sad after a breakup does not mean love is a feeling; it means that you’re sad after your breakup.
2: You’re sad if someone does not love you back because they did not show the actions of love to you. Or you’re sad because they did not want you or your actions of love.
I Love Being With Them: who ever makes this claim is confusing Joy or happiness (higher dopamine) for love. Love is apart of the culture you’re in, and the way you show it is different around the world. 
“Allah Loved Himself For Eternity.”
As I explained in P4, love needs 2 or more things to exist, so self-love is not real love.
Thoughts
This was kinda a goofy argument to form, and I’m very much not the first person to make this argument, but I want to revive the argument because I think its a awsome argument, and really fun to use. If anyone wants to challenge this argument they will have to destroy P4 to even have a chance to rebuttal this argument. Thank you for reading, and God Bless.
(If you did enjoy and wanna help the ministry, plz donate to to us at – buymeacoffee.com/myeternalpursuit )
